---
title: "Vitalik Buterin says L2s using Celestia are validiums, not genuine rollups"
url: https://diffcoin.com/vitalik-buterin-says-l2s-using-celestia-are-validiums-not-genuine-rollups/
description: "Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin has sparked discussion on how various layer 2 scaling solutions are classified, claiming that the blockchain’s…"
published: 2024-01-17
updated: 2024-01-17
author: "Mila"
site: "Diffcoin"
---

# Vitalik Buterin says L2s using Celestia are validiums, not genuine rollups

Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin has sparked discussion on how various layer 2 scaling solutions are classified, claiming that the blockchain’s validiums are not genuine rollup solutions.

On Jan. 16, Buterin agreed with a comment posted to X (Twitter) by Daniel Wang, the founder of the Ethereum rollup solution Taiko, who said if an Ethereum rollup uses another data chain for data availability — such as the modular blockchain Celestia — then it’s an Ethereum validium.

“This is correct,” Buterin replied. “The core of being a rollup is the unconditional security guarantee: you can get your assets out even if everyone else colludes against you.”

“You can’t get that if data availability is dependent on an external system,” he added.

> This is correct.
> 
> The core of being a rollup is the unconditional security guarantee: you can get your assets out even if everyone else colludes against you. Can’t get that if DA is dependent on an external system.
> 
> But being a validium is a correct choice for many apps, and…
> 
> — vitalik.eth (@VitalikButerin) [January 16, 2024](https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1747193558204105006?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

Validium is an Ethereum scaling solution using zero-knowledge proofs to enable off-chain transactions while relying on Ethereum’s mainnet for security and verification.

Unlike ZK-rollups, which batch transactions on a layer 2 network and verify them on a layer 1 like Ethereum, validium networks do not post transaction data to an L1. Instead, validiums post cryptographic proofs that transactions are valid, a setup that aims to achieve higher scalability as full transaction data doesn’t need to be stored on-chain.

However, validiums rely on operators to honestly post proofs and can have reduced data availability compared to rollups.

Networks such as Celestia use a modular blockchain made up of data availability layers and validation layers — the latter using validiums to enable fast and private transactions.

In a Jan. 16 post on the decentralized social media Warpcast, Buterin shared a diagram proposing an adjustment to some of the terminologies such as “security-favoring” and “scale-favoring” to “strong” vs “light” with the aim of being “more succinct.”

*Buterin’s proposed Ethereum scaling classifications. Source: Warpcast*

***Related:*** ***Polygon co-founder proposes zkEVM ‘validium’ upgrade to improve security***

Not all were in agreement with Buterin’s proposals, including Ethereum community member Ryan Berckmans who asserted that validiums are layer 2 networks.

“A layer-2 is a chain that settles on Ethereum,” he said. “I’ll die on this hill, and I’ll debate anyone who insists the DA [data availability] has to be on Ethereum for it to be an L2.”

“This is a new industry, we can define ‘L2’ to mean whatever we want,” he continued. “The maximally useful definition of L2 includes both rollups and validiums.”

> Yes, but validiums are L2s.
> 
> This is a new industry, we can define “L2” to mean whatever we want.
> 
> The maximally useful definition of L2 includes both rollups and validiums.
> 
> That’s why L2Beat lists validiums today.
> 
> L2 = rollup or validium https://t.co/WwtkAV2sAE
> 
> — Ryan Berckmans ryanb.eth (@ryanberckmans) [January 16, 2024](https://twitter.com/ryanberckmans/status/1747308420544204857?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

Contrary to Berckmans’ claims, layer 2 industry analytics platform L2Beat argues that validuims are not L2s.

> “Validiums and Optimiums are not L2s: by not publishing data on L1 they introduce additional trust assumptions on top of it.”

***Magazine:*** ***‘Account abstraction’ supercharges Ethereum wallets: Dummies guide***

[Source link](https://cointelegraph.com/news/l2s-using-celestia-are-validiums-not-rollups-says-buterin)